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Rogues

Dawson Well, time I put something up here I suppose!

Here is a handy web site that has a list of *most* Rogue armor and weapons, Its based on a concept of comparing items by the Agility they would provide (AEP (Agility Equivalence Points))

http://shadowpanther.net/

           +

http://wow-loot.com/rogue.htm

lots of info to look at, including fire res gear thats easy to farm/craft and dps of weapons ect


Dawson

      Daggers

There seems to be some confusion about how daggers do damage, so if your a backstab rogue, take note

Damage from backstab bassically works like this, 1.5 * Weapon + 210 where weapon means Weapon range, not the average DPS value.

Take the Thunderwood Poker, average 42.5 DPS min 53 max 100 Speed = 1.8

  and

the Shadowblade average 43.4 DPS min 38 max 71 speed =1.4

On pure DPS alone, the shadowblade looks like a better main hand, but wait, see with the following calculations with Backstab

Because backstab uses the range, effectivly the best backstab with each is;

shadowblade is 1.5 * 71 + 210 = 316.5

(71 is the max damage on the dagger)

Thunderwood Poker however is 1.5 * 100 + 210 = 360

(100 is the max damage on the dagger)

The sums involve factoring in attack power, but as an example, with 500AP, the Thunderwood can crit for 1183, where the shadowblade can only manage 1063, so thats a possable 120 DPS less from each backstab when using the shadowblade. Just one backstab justifys having the 42.5 dagger in mainhand for 120 seconds, or 2 minutes. Every 6 Seconds we get 60 energy, so thats another backstab, and perhaps another 120 damage depending on crits

Typically Rogues want the slowest main hand with the highest max damage, because most of our attacks are * (a percentage) and then a fast offhand so poison procs often (this goes for Sinister strike with swords/maces too)

A Rogue should never have a slow (1.3 - 1.4) dagger in mainhand. the AV dagger is easy to farm and will increase both your raid damage and chance of promotion to raid member, as will getting your dungeon set or similar crafted items .

Please be aware that Rogues bring very little to a raid, other than DPS, and often an extra hassle for the healers.

Can I just interject and say that many mobs can be stunned by rogues, who often fail to do so. It was a brand-new rogue (DarkReaver?) who asked if the evil critting Qiraji Warriors could be rogue-stunned, and I said 'No, don't be silly'. So he tried it, and they can. Hardcore level 61 mob stunned = easy life for the healers and tanks. So, rogues, make sure you try and stun every mob we fight, and if it's not immune, keep the fecker stunned. See? Rogues *do* have other uses! :)

DPS is what our class was designed for, so with some Rogues sitting 30th after a MC run, it doesnt take long for people to question why not just take an extra healer or mage. "waiting for a better dagger to drop" is not really acceptable excuse for choosing a poor dagger, if you dont have the gear to spec daggers, spec swords or maces until one drops and then respec. A lot of guilds require Rogues to have much better gear than CAF does, but that doesnt mean you shouldnt improve yours to help the Guild. I get alot of people saying how nice my gear is, all I did was look on a few guild websites and see what the minimum they would allow a Rogue to have, and then farm it.

  • Carly with a word about sword spec.

Starting with a little something about dmg and threat meters. A rogue should never expect to get healed - face it! This does happen, but you have to deal with the fact that you are the last on healer's priority list (i know, i have a healer). If you get aggro, which is something that we usually do because of the huge dps we are able to achieve, try using faint as fist thing. If this isn't enough, stop dps immediatelly, turn into a lemmon and hope that the tank is kind enough to take the mob off you. There is of course the rogue's last resort: vanish. Before doing this think a little: what is the amount of healling you got? what is the amount of sunders the mob has on? where is the tank? Because if you did get healed quite a lot and if the tank doesn;t have the situation under control, vanish means that mob's next target is the healer.


Now about sword spec. I find that with the right gear this is the spec that asures a good rogue with the first rank of the dmg meter. But, don't go respec-ing now because this is more of a PVE build or a suport rogue PVP. With this spec you can be sure that u can do huge damage overtime, but not the burst dmg the dagger rogue does. PVE build - if you are not soloing and you are in a party, than you have the time to reach 5 combat points and the eviscerate. If at this point you use cold blood the dmg is huge (make sure you faint afterwards). More: being sword spec-ed you can reach blade furry. So if you are fighting 2 mobs at the same time, reach 5 combat points on one, cold blood, blade fury, eviscerate = about 4000+ instant dmg. :D ,) Support PVP/PVE - this build also offers the rogue the posibility of stun lock for a period of time. A good combination of cheap shot, gouge, kidney, stealth (vanish or out of combat), cheap shot, etc. offers the rogue the possibility to hold certain characters in stun lock. This is best when:

  • Fighting in PVP next to another rogue (best is dagger - the combination is deadly and sure :) )
  • Fighting in PVP and trying to just hold another character in place in order to give the necessary time to a friendly target to "get the flag".
  • Fighting in PVE and doing your part in saving the healer's ass while the rest of the party is dealing with another mob. Make sure you don't do this to often since with mobs out of combat stealth is impossible.
  • Fighting in PVE and stunlocking a hard mob (see Kelvinfrost's post).

Hope this helps.

Every Rogue should be using Threat meters, just as our main tanks do. This means Rogues should never pull aggro. Lets try to change "which is something that we usually do" to something we do rarely!! Also, Faint does have a chance of getting a healer aggroed just as vanish does. Faint drops our aggro slighty, where vanish wipes it totally. If faint is enough that we are no longer in top aggro place, the person with the next highest on the aggro list becomes the target. Where faint does have the advantage is when it lowers the aggro enough to make it easyer for the tank to pull aggro off you. in this case, Evasion is your friend, pop it and stop DPS. Also, I normally use vanish half way though a boss fight, just to wipe the aggro clean. helps alot when you have critted often in a row.

Dawson Just to point out, everyone should really have talents in Imp Slice and Dice, On boss fights it is the finisher that does the most damage by increasing attack speed by 30%. This is a huge boost to our dps, and with talent points it can lasts long enough that we can still build up enough combos to use our other abilitys. small mobs dont really last long enough to warrent a 5 point s`n`d, so I normally open with a ambush if im not worried about agro , or garrote if I am. Yes i know garrote isnt that great a damage dealer,about 666 + attack power bonus, but it will never crit, and critting is the main way we pull aggro. so garrote allows 1 combo point for S`n`d and a huge amount less agro to boot. OFC this doesnt work on mobs that are immune to bleed effects, so basically most of MC, but helps in ZG Ambush crit causes the biggest amount of agro btw, thus only a Noob would ever try to ambush Raggy, that fight will be a mixture of trying to stay alive, against doing the most amount of damage while causeing the least amount of threat. Sword speced will have agro management much easter, since they dont rely on crits like us BS Rogues do, but there damage will suffer for it at this level :) once we get access to the blades in BWL, sword spec becomes much more attractive. (esp to humans with there racial in swords, as there attacks will miss less)

Dawson Mut build thats fun http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=iGxcoEboizVoGcVZVM

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Page last modified on April 29, 2007, at 08:01 AM